Transcript: Governor Cuomo Joins Rabbi Ammi Hirsch on ‘In These Times’ to Discuss Combating Antisemitism and Running for Mayor of New York City
Governor Andrew M. Cuomo, candidate for New York City Mayor, joined Rabbi Ammi Hirsch of Stephen Wise Free Synagogue for his podcast, In These Times. During the nearly hour-long conversation, the Governor spoke about the rise of antisemitism, the unfolding of anti-Israel protests on college campuses in New York City, and what he would do as Mayor to ensure that Jewish students are protected.
Listen to the Interview Here
A transcript of the interview appears below.
RABBI AMMIEL HIRSCH: I'm Rabbi Ammi Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York and you're listening to In These Times.
Andrew Cuomo has dedicated decades of his life to public service. The son of New York's 52nd Governor, Mario Cuomo, Andrew served as US Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, New York Attorney General, and Governor of the state of New York from 2011 to 2021. When Governor Cuomo's staff contacted me to say that he was eager to be a guest on In These Times, of course I immediately accepted.
We are in the midst of an important mayoral campaign in New York City with local, national, and even international ramifications. Moreover, as this podcast focuses on issues important to the American Jewish community, the opportunity to spend close to an hour in intimate conversation with the former governor of New York, and according to recent polling, the leading candidate for mayor of our city, constitutes a rare opportunity to probe deeply into the issues that are important to Americans and American Jews, not in a partisan manner.
Synagogues do not engage in partisan politics. We do not endorse candidates and we do not tell people how to vote. But rather, as a service to anyone interested in becoming more informed about the issues that define the campaign. I hope other candidates will contact me as well. A mayoral forum focusing on the issues that American Jews are most concerned about would be good for both our community as well as the candidates seeking our support.
In the course of our conversation, I asked Governor Cuomo what is at stake in the coming years.
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I am worried about the state of American democracy. I'm worried about this president. You have a broken government in New York and the city feels out of control and chaotic. You have this far left, which is basically anti-business. I think, not to be frightened, is unintelligent.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Governor Andrew Cuomo, welcome to In These Times.
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Thank you for having me, Rabbi.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: It's a great honor to have you. Before we get to some of the key issues, in particular Israel and the Middle East, I just wanted to ask you—you spent most of your life in public service. You spent eight years at HUD and four years as the Secretary. You were the Attorney General in New York. You were, of course, the Governor of New York, and now you're running for Mayor of New York. What is it about public life that is so compelling to you that constantly draws you into public service?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Well, let's say that also, Rabbi, that starting in my twenties, helping my father run for governor was probably the most difficult public service I did.
I helped him run his first campaign and he became governor in 1982, and then I worked with him as a special assistant for the first few years, and then I helped him informally. Public service, you pay a tremendous price, a higher price than I realized when I look back, because you just take a lot of time away from your family.
There are other opportunities you don't get a chance to pursue. You deal with all sorts of garbage, especially nowadays. It's a toxic environment, you know, it's like swimming in sewage some days, but—the but is—you get to do a tremendous amount of good for people if you do it right. The political part of it, the back and forth, the politics, the pandering, the posturing, forget all that stuff, which many politicians focus on. I focus on the instrumentality of government, of getting things done. And when you get something done that changes people's lives, that brings so much satisfaction. We were the first big state to pass marriage equality, for example, which then changed the whole conversation across the country.
You know, not to sound like an arrogant New Yorker, but when New York does something, people notice. Free college tuition, raise the minimum wage. You change lives. And that's the upside, that's the benefit. And I was not planning on running for mayor. I moved into private practice, and I was enjoying life, and I got myself reacquainted with my kids.
But I was watching New York City. I'm watching the country, and I'm afraid for New York City. Urban areas all across the country are in decline. And I wanted to get in to see if I could help because I think help is needed.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: I must tell you that I think of you every time I go through LaGuardia Airport. That is a great accomplishment.
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: LaGuardia is beautiful, isn't it? And what I like about it, Rabbi is that it shows what you can do, right? That was the worst airport in the country. People mocked it. Joe Biden mocked it. He said if you were blindfolded and you landed in LaGuardia Airport and took off the blindfold, you'd think you're in a third world country, right?
And they said it was impossible to do because you had to build a new airport while you operated the old one. And it's the smallest footprint of any airport in the United States. But so you build a new airport, you know, we built a new Moynihan train station. A new subway line, new Long Island railroad line, some beautiful bridges. One we named after my father. You know, so where do you get a chance to do something like that in life? And it gives me tremendous satisfaction.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Counting what you said about the time you spent helping your father campaign, it's been about four decades, I suppose, that you've been in politics and public life.
Can you elaborate a little further on how you think it's changed?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: It is much nastier. This use of the justice system to play politics is frightening. Both sides will say the other side does it, but it is pervasive now. Early on, there was politics in the campaign and you did your back and forth, but then you went into government and there was almost a demarcation between politics and government, and in government you got serious and you focused on policy and what was right and what was intelligent and what was logical and responsible. That line is blurred. This is just now all politics all the time.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Why do you, why is that? Do you think the country has changed? Do you think just the art or the culture of politics has been coarsened?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I think, well, the, the coarsening I think is partially social media and it's partially the culture. It's a harsher culture, right? Maybe, the venting through social media, the anonymity of social media allowed us to air thoughts that we normally wouldn't have dared to utter if we had to be identified with them.
That has certainly affected the political discourse back and forth, the team mentality, the: I'm a Democrat, you're a Republican, you are bad. I'm good. That has gotten more pervasive. I'm not sure why. But the big difference for me is you didn't try to put people in jail because they were your political opponent.
You knew that the justice system had integrity. And no one dared politicize the justice system. I started as an assistant district attorney to Bob Morgenthau, a Manhattan District Attorney, legendary. Boy, that's the justice system, that's out of bounds. But then I think it started with President Trump when he was in office, and I think he started to use the Department of Justice as a political weapon.
And that just takes you to a frightening level.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Governor, I wanted to, on behalf of the Jewish community, I want to acknowledge that throughout your entire career, you've been a fierce defender of the Jewish community and of Israel. You, a good Catholic boy. Tell us why, what, what's your motivation?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Oh, well, first I, a New Yorker, largest Jewish population outside of Israel. Second. I am personally just very close to the Jewish community, friends, family, literally two of my brothers-in-law are Jewish. So I grew up with the Jewish community and the tradition and the faith, and my father was very close to the Jewish community, and the Jewish community in the past, much more now, but they were often a community that needed assistance and needed understanding and needed protection. Again, my father was very aggressive on behalf of Israel as governor, and I continued that, traveling to Israel every time they were attacked, right? Rockets from Hamas would fly—I would go to Israel.
Why would you do that? They're under attack. That's why I went. That's when a friend shows up when you're under attack, always working on the relationship because you are always aware of this delicate, fragile balance we have in this country. E Pluribus Unum, out of many one. You're now an American, and we respect our differences.
Yeah—but we're still aware of the differences. And before Jewish antisemitism was always right under the surface. Never like this. I would've never imagined if you told me five years ago this situation was going to develop with antisemitism, where New York City had more antisemitic incidents than any city in the country. I would say you were a paranoid-delusional, and you needed assistance. Everything I did, we had really one antisemitic attack where a person attacked a rabbi in Muncie, New York. The person turned out to be mentally ill. But I still passed the strongest hate crime bill in the United States funding for security around Jewish facilities.
So we were always aware of the sensitivity with the Jewish community, right? Which was more so than with the Italian community and other communities. That was always in the back of my head, and it was important to remember that.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Do you think there's something unique, that goes beyond just, you know, hate of minorities or straight up hatred that we experience in society.
Do you think there's something unique about antisemitism? About hatred of Jews?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I think there is, Rabbi, and it pains me to say that, and I don't understand why, but you'd be in denial if you didn't say when you look through history, you see, whenever there's a tension, there's an issue, it seems like fingers get pointed to the Jews first. But I tell you, I am still shocked because I thought we were more sophisticated, we were more educated, we were more assimilated.
It's impossible that there'd be this level of antisemitism now. October 7th introduces a whole new dynamic. I get that. I really do. I understand how you can have very strong feelings on the matter. You should have strong feelings on the matter. I understand how some people don't really understand history anymore.
And you have a lot of young people who only know TikTok and they've been watching TikTok and they see the same image of children in Gaza combing through rock piles for something to eat. I understand all of that, but you can be pro-Palestinian and that's fine. That's your right, but not anti-Semitic.
That's a different stage and that's where we are.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Well, so help us understand that, because you said you were shocked by the explosion of antisemitism in the last few years. I can tell you on behalf of the Jewish community that we were stunned and in some way shaken to our core because we believed that we had come so far in American society and that American society with all of its exceptionalism was exceptional in this respect too, that to a certain degree, it wasn't that we were not aware that there was antisemitism in the country. Of course we remember the Pittsburgh massacre and Poway. But fundamentally, we thought that these kinds of explosions of antisemitism that we're seeing now were un-American, they were behind us, and they could arise in Europe and other places in the world, but not here. How do you account for this kind of eruption of antisemitism immediately after October 7th, which was the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. So you had 1200 Jews who were massacred. You had 250 Israelis who were taken hostage and protests erupted here in the west against Israel and eventually against the Jews. How do you account for that?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I can't. I can't, except to the extent that first of all, this American experiment in democracy where we say we can accept people from all over the world and forge one community, this is still a work in progress and there is still a tension, right? COVID happens, we have all sorts of incidents against Chinese people because it was the “China virus” as the president said.
So it's always a fragile balance, right? We're all assimilated. We're all one. Yeah, until we're not. But it is different with the Jewish community, and I agree with you. October 7th, the attack is on Israel, innocents are killed. And by the way, we're all experienced with terrorism and terrorist attacks and the appropriate response to terrorism. In the face of a terrorist attack you defend yourself against this savage brutality. We've seen that in this country and around the world. It happens to Israel, and that's the situation for, it felt like 48 hours, and then all of a sudden it flips to Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself. I don't have an explanation. I was shocked, and I continue to be shocked at how it has become more and more egregious. You wear the masks of Hamas during protests. What are you trying to say? You're not saying, I want peace. You're not saying Israel should stop bombing. You are wearing the mask of Hamas. You are saying, I'm dressed like the terrorists of October 7th, who killed and raped and brutalized.
That's what you're saying. You are saying, I am wearing an outfit of pure hatred. That is what I am wearing. I am pure hatred that massacred people, and I'm emulating that. I mean, how do you explain that? How do you defend that?
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Do you remember where you were when you first heard the news on October 7th, and what was your reaction?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I think mentally I tried to minimize it. At first, I remember talking to my daughter on the phone about it and because, you know, the news came out in dribs and drabs, you know, and to me it reminded me of like 9/11 and how the news came out, you know, piecemeal and you really didn't see the full picture for a while.
But then, obviously, the more facts you get, the uglier it was. As I mentioned, I went to Israel a number of times during different attacks. I went when they first discovered the tunnels from Gaza and Shimon Peres took us on a tour of the tunnels because he wanted to get some international press on how adamant the Palestinians were to reach a place where they could kill Jewish people that they built this elaborate tunnel and must have spent millions of dollars building this tunnel about a mile long. And the resilience of the people of Israel where you could have an attack in the morning and like by the afternoon, you know, it was gone and they moved on. Was this that? Was this just another… but then obviously as the facts came in, it was more and more horrific.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Have you given thought to the nexus between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism? Do you think that anti-Zionism - Israel is apartheid, oppression, “from the river to the sea, boycott, divestment, sanction. Do you think that is, by definition, antisemitism or is there some gray line between anti-Zionism and antisemitism?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I think, Rabbi, in theory, you could draw a line. In theory, you could draw a line. In theory, you could say: I oppose the government's policies, but I understand that is not a reflection on the people of the country, right? You can say, and people do say: I oppose Trump on immigration; I oppose Trump on tariffs; but I'm not anti-American. I'm not anti the American people. So theoretically you could do it, but I don't think that's what's happening here. I don't think there is a line. My opponents in my mayor's race, they're all members of the Democratic Socialists of America, which are the left wing of the Democratic Party or they’re supporters of the DSA, which is BDS, and you agree not to visit Israel. Well, now you're condemning the people of Israel, right? So the line, if you could have drawn a line, they haven't drawn a line. And anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. That's where I believe we are.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: You mentioned the Democratic Party. I know you know this: Most American Jews, since the days of FDR at least, have strongly supported the Democratic Party in every way. And I must tell you: even those who are still supportive of the Democratic Party, almost all of us were shocked at the progressive wing, which spilled into universities and the intellectual scene as well, in its animosity towards Israel.
What's going on in the Democratic Party and can you assure American Jews that the Democratic Party that they supported since World War II is the same Democratic party?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: No, I can't. I come from the same school. To me, being a Democrat was synonymous with supporting Israel. There wasn't even a conversation.
You now have a significant movement in the Democratic Party. It is still the minority, but it is a very powerful minority that they say—on paper, Rabbi—I'm a Democratic Socialist, which by the way, I don't know how you can be a Democratic Socialist 'cause that's an oxymoron, right? Just, you can't be a Democrat and a Socialist. I think it's just they're playing word games. You're a Socialist. Alright, God bless you, you're a Socialist then call yourself a Socialist. And in their charter it says, I agree that I support BDS. I agree not to travel to Israel. And that is a significant portion of the Democratic Party and the moderates are afraid of that faction. It is the activist faction. It is the faction that comes out in primaries. And in a place like New York, Los Angeles, main urban centers, they are very much the governing influence. Defunding the police was their position. Homeless, mentally Ill have a civil right to be on the street. Right? Why in Los Angeles, San Francisco - all you see are the blue tarps and people living everywhere. Well it’s their civil right. And BDS: Don't visit Israel. Pro-Palestinian. I think they used it as a recruiting tool. I think they attracted a lot of young people to their movement with their anti-Israel position. I think you have a lot of young people who have no idea of history, right?
There's no 1947, 1967, Yom Kippur War. There’s none of that. It’s just TikTok for the past year and a half, and the same image over and over, and Israel is the superpower. And poor Gaza is the underdog and they're with the underdog. That's all they know. And I think this far left has used the pro-Palestinian issue to recruit those young people.
I think it's more organized than we think. I think there's more funders in there than we think. I think there's foreign money in there, and I understand why a lot of Jewish people don't have the trust in the Democratic Party that they did, and they watched the squad in Washington and what they said about Israel, which was vile in many ways, and the Democrats stood by silent and they felt isolated and abandoned.
And I get it.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Do you think there's a risk of losing the traditional bipartisan support for Israel?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I don't think we are there yet. I think the majority of Democrats support Israel. And I think the bipartisan support will remain. But have we lost a generation of young people who I believe will carry an antipathy towards Israel for many years?
Hopefully they learn something and they get past it. But yes, I think there's a whole generation out there. You try to talk to some of these kids on these college campuses. And they don't want to hear it. They just don't want to hear history and Camp David Accords and all the attempts at peace and the fact that really Israel has never wanted anything but peace, right?
They don't want to hear it.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: What should we be doing? I mean, I know that you've established an initiative to try and fight back. It's not an option just simply to sit back and let these developments unfold or simply talk to ourselves. What do you think we can do? And specifically, how would you be able to make a contribution within the Democratic party
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: First, I think we should be more aggressive. I don't think we're aggressive enough. I think after October 7th, there was a whole mobilization. There was a lot of generosity, a lot of donations. Most of that went to help people in Israel, but there wasn't enough focus on the response in this country, there wasn't enough outrage and opposition to what was going on.
And silence is acceptance in this political system. And if you are not opposing vehemently, then you are losing. And I think we need a more aggressive, louder impact in the election that I'm in. Make these candidates who are running in a Democratic primary, how do you justify supporting BDS? Right? This is a city.
You have 600,000 registered Jewish Democrats. The whole turnout in a primary is 800,000. They could decide the election. Use your voice, use your vote. Get aggressive. Passivity does not work. And I say that to synagogues and temples whenever I get a chance. Number two, I think I can be helpful as the Shabbos goy.
You know, sometimes a non-Jew can be helpful.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Listen, I know that you, just by use of that term, I know that you're a friend of the Jews.
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I am, you know, I'm, I'm way out there. I'm very aggressive. I don't think there've been enough arrests of these protesters who have violated the law. I think we've been complacent and compliant, and so I would be much more aggressive.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Do you include in that you know, politics runs on financial contributions as well, do you. Do you think, you know, the Jewish communities should condition financial support on support for various policies of candidates?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Yes. Yes. If I'm a Jewish contributor, I say Israel's important to me, assuming I support Israel, and if you want my financial contribution, I want to know that we're in the same position on the issues.
Which is how the American system works, right? My issue is the environment I support environmentally conscientious candidates. That's how it works. And I think unfortunately, finance is the grease of the gears here, right? In this political machine, in this country all too often. So yes, I think the Jewish community should be more aggressive.
I think it's a time to be more aggressive, politically—more outspoken. There's a congressman from New York who's a great champion for the Jewish community, Congressman Ritchie Torres, and at great risk to himself because when you are pro-Israel, you pay a very high price. Because you have that whole left against you, right? All those Democratic socialists are against you. But he's a courageous politician. He believes it. He took that position and the Jewish community has rallied around Congressman Torres, and I think that's the right thing.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Did it shock you? What transpired very, very soon after October 7th on university campuses?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Yes. And the vehemence. The vehemence. I don't know. I keep coming back to it, Rabbi, but it's just, it's the masks. The masks. You know, you could have a great intellectual debate about a supporte’.s rights to be pro-Palestinian and feelings about Netanyahu. And it could be a great. When you put on that mask of Hamas, there was no intellectual debate. That was the mask of hate, and that just floored me.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: It, of course, is very disturbing for the Jewish community and of course, the New York Jewish community here in our backyards, to witness the unfolding of events in Columbia or NYU or CUNY, and I've been trying to understand why the universities responded the way they did for that first year or so, because in the recent months, it seems like many of them are doing a better job than they did in the first year. And I keep on coming back to, it's one of the following possibilities or all of them together in some way: either they are just simply incompetent or they have a subtle attraction and agreement with this identity politics philosophy that inclines, more times than not, to an anti-Israel, anti-Zionist type worldview.
Or they calculated that it wasn't in their interests to act any differently, even though their own policies prevented what unfolded. That is, it wasn't that they needed to create new policies, they didn't enforce the policies that they already had on campus and that they would've enforced against any other minority group who was attacked and, you know, violated in this way.
What do you think, why were administrators, presidents of universities, so compromised? And couldn't see the issue clearly enough for that whole entire first year. And it was only after this kind of counter pressure began to build on them from alumni, but also from certain government agencies that eventually brought them to the place where they should have been at the very beginning.
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: No, that's a very good question, Rabbi. I think it's, I would take E, all of the above. It's incompetence meets fear. I don't think a lot of these administrators had dealt with a situation like this, right? Probably for their entire tenure. I mean, you have to go back a ways to find these kinds of demonstrations on college campuses.
So I think they were just afraid. It was a significant feeling among the student body. This was not going to be about 5 or 10 or 20 kids. This was a significant percentage of the student body, and I think the hyper intellectual discussion was pro-Palestinian or leaning pro-Palestinian, Right?
Israel. Too much. Too far. It was a disproportionate response. I think that was the leading argument and until there was counter pressure, they didn't act. And that's why I go back to: there has to be counter pressure on the college presidents. There has to be counter pressure on the Democratic electeds. Because otherwise, why should I stand up and take a position on this issue?
And a Democratic primary, maybe 40% will say they're Democratic socialists. Pro-BDS 40% is a big number. Why should I incur that if I don't have to?
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Do you think there's foreign money flowing into universities and that's making a difference in terms of their approach as well?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I do. I don't have evidence, but I believe that, and I believe that's been happening for many years and I think we didn't catch it and we didn't notice it.
And the Middle East studies centers were biased. You know, when you look back now, right: BDS, that was probably 15 years ago that started. Israel is the Apartheid government, Amnesty International, Human Rights violations, right?
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: If you were elected mayor, we have these great institutions of higher learning in our city, many of which have had these kinds of problems and still do.
Is there something you would do specifically to make sure that Jewish students are as protected as is their right?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I would be much more aggressive in enforcing the law and then prosecuting afterwards. If the district attorneys are afraid of the politics, I would use the human rights law violations.
Which aren't criminal, but they're still legal violations. I would say to the university administrators, let me take the heat. It's on private property, so you need the administrator to allow the NYPD to take action unless it's exigent circumstances. But I would say to them, I'll take the heat. I get it.
You don't want to deal with it or you don't want the conflict let me do it. I would take much more aggressive action.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Before we run out of time, and I know you've been very generous with your time, I'd, I'd like to ask you just a little bit about the state of the country. Uh, how are we doing in this country?
Are you, are you worried about the state of American democracy?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I am worried about the state of American democracy. I'm worried about this President, I know him very well. He's from New York, he's from Queens. I've known him all my life. He is, to me, wreaking havoc on democracy and he is effective at it. And the Democrats haven't really figured out how to deal with him.
You know, he's moved so quickly. What did Wayne Gretzky say? Skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it's been. It seems like the Democrats are skating to the point he was at yesterday, but today he's at a totally different place. You know, they haven't figured out how to deal with that. And it's frightening how you see major institutions cower major law firms, major schools, major companies.
I think not to be frightened is unintelligent, putting people in jail, wild times out there. Rabbi.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: What do you think of that Columbia student who was arrested? Was a green card holder. In general, the practice of arresting people without due process?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Due process is everything. It is everything.
I don't care what your position is. I don't care what your politics are. Right? That is the one rule we all have to agree to. Right? Unless we're going to really destroy each other and see the whole system meltdown. That's what I was referring to earlier when I was talking about the politicalization of the justice system.
Once that happens, it's over and the justice system has that one rule, which is due process. That's it. That's all we have. That's the foundation.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: So you think there's a real danger in enforcing the forced expulsion of migrants here? Trump himself said something like, what are we gonna give court hearings to all these many millions of illegal migrants?
You think there's a real danger to the fabric of American democracy in this?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Look, we know they have deported people wrongfully, right? The government makes mistakes, especially when it has a political agenda that it is pursuing, right? It's not like we are pursuing anarchists, Rabbi, who are planting bombs in buildings here.
Trump's point is, well, they're here illegally, all right? But the response should be proportionate and basic due process doesn't mean everybody has the right to go to trial and then appellate court, but basic due process of course.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: What do you think are the main issues—the main challenges for New York City—as you are running now for mayor of New York?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: You have a broken government in New York, it just doesn't function and the city feels out of control and chaotic public safety, mentally ill, homeless random assaults. The city is dirty. E-bikes zipping all over the place. It just feels like the place is out of control. And it's frightening for people. Number of people leaving the city is frightening for me.
You have that set of operational problems, if you will. You have this far left, which is basically anti-business because they're socialists, so they're, they do their best. They basically chase businesses out of New York. And you need business, you need jobs, you need growth, you need income. You have that set of issues overlaid with the political issue of the far left and these really destructive policies.
And then you have a federal government that is antagonistic and you are going to feel it first in budget cuts. Which will go primarily to blue states and blue cities that will happen. They'll cut Medicaid, they'll cut housing assistance. They'll cut title one funds because they'll need to fund a tax cut.
He has to fund the 2017 tax cut and a new tax cut. And they're going to find the money by attacking the blue cities and blue states and primarily funding that would go to poorer people. So that's the convergence of those two dynamics are problematic
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: And you feel you're, you have a plan to address these main challenges and you feel you're the best in the field that will be able to do that.
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: I have a plan and I think experience teaches, Rabbi. I've been a federal cabinet secretary. I was the attorney general. I've been through storms and floods and riots, and COVID. I've gone 14 rounds with Donald Trump, so I don't know that anyone can come in here in wave of a wand, but I think I'm battle tested and proven.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Do you have a final message to—we have a lot of non-Jewish listeners across the country who listen to you, by the way—they, they remember with great fondness, your daily briefings during the Covid Pandemic. Do you have a final message to American citizens on the eve of the New York Primary?
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Antisemitism is not just about Jewish people.
It is about discrimination. It is about differentiation. It is anti-American. Once you start to say, well, you are Jewish and I'm gonna judge you because of that, well then are you gonna judge me because I'm Italian or we judge a Black person, judge a Native American, judge a Chinese person—that pulls at the very fabric that is America.
So it's not just antisemitism. This is anti-American. Second, on the more granular, parochial, urban areas are in desperate condition in this country. Post-COVID. You don't have to be in a city anymore. Remote work zooms people moved out during COVID, and you know what it was, okay. Then you have the deterioration of urban areas at the same time.
They’re not fun to be in. They're threatening. You're not excited to go into San Francisco or LA or Chicago or New York. That's where we are now, and it only gets worse. You have people leaving these urban areas. Then you're going to see it compounded when the federal government basically abandons them.
And that is something that will, will hurt the country overall. You know, the urban centers are essential to this national economy.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: Governor Andrew Cuomo, on behalf of the Jewish community, thank you and your family for decades of support of the Jewish community and the state of Israel. And good luck on the upcoming campaign.
GOV ANDREW CUOMO: Thank you, Rabbi. Thank you for having me.
RABBI AMMI HIRSCH: I'm so pleased that Governor Cuomo reached out to me and offered to engage our synagogue and international podcast community as we are in the midst of a mayoral campaign in New York City. I welcome hearing from other candidates as well. These are opportunities to dwell on issues that are especially important to the Jewish community.
To be clear. Churches, synagogues, mosques and other religious institutions are not political bodies and rabbis are not politicians. We do not endorse political candidates. We do, however, endorse policies. Our job is to remind politicians of our moral imperatives. We see the world from our religious obligations out, not from political calculations in.
We are driven not by what is popular, but by what is right. We are driven, not by the words of posters, but by the words of God. Love the foreigner, defend the orphan and the widow. Pursue peace and justice, love mercy, and walk humbly. We have a concept in Judaism called Hakarat HaTov, the recognition of the good gratitude for some blessing or gift or special support we have received.
It is a profound Jewish value because we do not think enough about gratitude. When things are good in our lives, we often take the good times for granted. When we are in good health, we rarely think of illness. When we are satisfied in our work and careers, we tend not to dwell on our fortune and the misfortune of others, and even more, we assume that the good times like the Mississippi River will just keep rolling along.
It's not true. Everything changes. Both our personal and communal lives are precariously balanced. Most people are one major setback. One bad decision, one skipped heartbeat away from a wholly different life and even the best, most tolerant and most advanced societies have only a top thin veneer of stability, chaos, and disorder.
All of the blemishes of the human creature. Play bubbling and churning just under the surface. For this reason, Jewish sages advised, pray for the welfare of the government. For without its authority, people would swallow their neighbors alive. Governor Cuomo and his father, Mario Cuomo before him have been uniquely supportive of the Jewish community and the Jewish state for decades.
We should not take this support for granted. Contrary to what many of us assumed prior to October 7th, 2023, the virus of Jew hatred still exists. Yes, even in America, viruses cannot be eliminated. They lay dormant, preparing to attack the body and the body politic when they are weak. The explosion of antisemitism in this country is a clear sign that our civic culture has weakened and America itself is at risk of severe social and political disease.
It takes courage nowadays to defend Israel and the Jewish people. We are a small minority, less than 2% of Americans and 0.01% of the human population. We need friends and allies. The prisoner cannot free himself from prison, say the rabbis. The struggle against antisemitism is not for Jews alone.
The fight against racism is not for minorities alone, and the fight against economic inequality is not for the dispossessed alone. And therefore, irrespective of our political views or affiliations, it is important to me, and it is right and proper for the Jewish community to recognize and honor those who have stood by us in this respect.
I want to reiterate what I said to the Governor. The Cuomo family will be recorded in the annals of Jewish civilization as our loyal friends, and for this, we are grateful and we do not take it for granted.
Until next time, this is In These Times.
Listen to the Interview Here
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